Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 3240 From: bradodarb Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: HTML CNC Controller
When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.

As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.

I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.

It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.


My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?

Questions/Comments please.

-Brad Murry
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3241 From: himykabibble Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller
Brad,

No offense, but to me, that would come under the heading of "Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should". My browsers crash on a regular basis, and using one as a machine control interface would scare me. Also, I would think there would be performance impact, no? Just seems like an unnecessary, and undesirable, extra layer.

Couldn't you get pretty much the same benefits using WPF? Isn't that what WPF is all about? Given that VC# Express is free, and the form designer is something almost anyone could master in fairly short order, that also seems to me a nice way to go, as long as all they're changing is the visuals.

OTOH, you could them monetize MM by including ads, and requiring the user to watch a 30 second commercial before each machine run! :-)

Well, back to work, plumbing the KFlop into my controller. I hope to have it up in a couple of hours....

Regards,
Ray L.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bradodarb" <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.
>
> As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
>
> I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
>
> It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.
>
>
> My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
>
> Questions/Comments please.
>
> -Brad Murry
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3243 From: Brad Murry Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller

  No offense taken, perhaps I was not clear enough…..

 

I am not suggesting to host the control in a web browser, just to host an html page in a window.

 

The performance would be within 10’s of ms to that of a simple winforms app.

 

Obviously the above two points would be irrelevant to the end user of such as system, as there would be no reason to build a system  that had such suggested limitations.  The end user would just expect things to work.

 

HTML is undeniably the most ubiquitous form of delivering  rich visual content(# of native applications vs. # of websites)  My grandmother has actually built websites in HTML, which leaves me to believe that it is fairly straight forward to learn and can be created using notepad and debugged in your favorite browser.

 

I can see how this might seem unnecessary, etc.. to those not familiar with the technologies.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan of WPF(especially combined with MVVM)- it is what MM uses.

 

I’m really not concerned with monetizing MM at present.

 

 

Let me filter my audience criteria::

 

I am trying to see if there is anyone who might fall with the following scenarios::

 

1)       OEM’s or integrators here that could make use of HTML technology in lieu of Mach3 with custom screens

2)      Hobbyists who are proficient in basic formatting HTML and would like to create their own custom interfaces without needing to write any code

3)      Hobbyists who want to create their own interface that have no knowledge of HTML, but can use a free website designer to build a custom interface

(see http://netobjects.com/html/essentials.html)

 

 

 

If you fall into any of these categories or you have knowledgeable constructive criticism to offer please let me know.

 

-Brad Murry

 

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of himykabibble
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: HTML CNC Controller

 

 

Brad,

No offense, but to me, that would come under the heading of "Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should". My browsers crash on a regular basis, and using one as a machine control interface would scare me. Also, I would think there would be performance impact, no? Just seems like an unnecessary, and undesirable, extra layer.

Couldn't you get pretty much the same benefits using WPF? Isn't that what WPF is all about? Given that VC# Express is free, and the form designer is something almost anyone could master in fairly short order, that also seems to me a nice way to go, as long as all they're changing is the visuals.

OTOH, you could them monetize MM by including ads, and requiring the user to watch a 30 second commercial before each machine run! :-)

Well, back to work, plumbing the KFlop into my controller. I hope to have it up in a couple of hours....

Regards,
Ray L.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bradodarb" <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.
>
> As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
>
> I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
>
> It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.
>
>
> My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
>
> Questions/Comments please.
>
> -Brad Murry
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3249 From: tmday7 Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller
Hmmm, that sounds interesting Brad. As i do some website designing myself, and must say, HTML is much easier than programming language :)

Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Brad Murry <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> No offense taken, perhaps I was not clear enough...
>
>
>
> I am not suggesting to host the control in a web browser, just to host an
> html page in a window.
>
>
>
> The performance would be within 10's of ms to that of a simple winforms app.
>
>
>
> Obviously the above two points would be irrelevant to the end user of such
> as system, as there would be no reason to build a system that had such
> suggested limitations. The end user would just expect things to work.
>
>
>
> HTML is undeniably the most ubiquitous form of delivering rich visual
> content(# of native applications vs. # of websites) My grandmother has
> actually built websites in HTML, which leaves me to believe that it is
> fairly straight forward to learn and can be created using notepad and
> debugged in your favorite browser.
>
>
>
> I can see how this might seem unnecessary, etc.. to those not familiar with
> the technologies.
>
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of WPF(especially combined with MVVM)- it
> is what MM uses.
>
>
>
> I'm really not concerned with monetizing MM at present.
>
>
>
>
>
> Let me filter my audience criteria::
>
>
>
> I am trying to see if there is anyone who might fall with the following
> scenarios::
>
>
>
> 1) OEM's or integrators here that could make use of HTML technology in
> lieu of Mach3 with custom screens
>
> 2) Hobbyists who are proficient in basic formatting HTML and would like
> to create their own custom interfaces without needing to write any code
>
> 3) Hobbyists who want to create their own interface that have no
> knowledge of HTML, but can use a free website designer to build a custom
> interface
>
> (see http://netobjects.com/html/essentials.html)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you fall into any of these categories or you have knowledgeable
> constructive criticism to offer please let me know.
>
>
>
> -Brad Murry
>
>
>
> From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of himykabibble
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: HTML CNC Controller
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad,
>
> No offense, but to me, that would come under the heading of "Just because
> you can do it, doesn't mean you should". My browsers crash on a regular
> basis, and using one as a machine control interface would scare me. Also, I
> would think there would be performance impact, no? Just seems like an
> unnecessary, and undesirable, extra layer.
>
> Couldn't you get pretty much the same benefits using WPF? Isn't that what
> WPF is all about? Given that VC# Express is free, and the form designer is
> something almost anyone could master in fairly short order, that also seems
> to me a nice way to go, as long as all they're changing is the visuals.
>
> OTOH, you could them monetize MM by including ads, and requiring the user to
> watch a 30 second commercial before each machine run! :-)
>
> Well, back to work, plumbing the KFlop into my controller. I hope to have it
> up in a couple of hours....
>
> Regards,
> Ray L.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "bradodarb" <bradodarb@> wrote:
> >
> > When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web
> dev skills.
> >
> > As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to
> be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an
> HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
> >
> > I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page
> and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
> >
> > It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface,
> all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file
> for styling.
> >
> >
> > My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
> >
> > Questions/Comments please.
> >
> > -Brad Murry
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3250 From: Vlad O Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller
Brad,
Interesting conception.
I think an CNC control window at some distinct future become an virtual access point and some body would like to make part, basically login in remote CNC center, remotely load a material, tools, an DXF file, push button - and got what he wants.
Fantastical?  Not. near future.

But at this days, I am using an direct interface with Corel Draw and see how that become an advantage to reduce CAM steps and even non-professional would make an excellent job even from first time.
In comparison with from and DXF to CAM file generating software  -> Mach/KFlop it is definitely step forward towards simplification and reducing steps.
What it is need - a printer driver for the KFlop. To perform direct "printing", just vector drawing to part.
CAM file + Mach3 or KFlop screen it is far past, when Gerber was only the option.

Short question - Why you do not make an Printer driver instead ?  :)

Coming over, I will show you the advantage.

One more, for conclusion - HTML of Pithon, or other nonC or even C - it is programming.  Direct visual interface much easy, less steps and it is as easy as printing word document.

The Best,
Vlad


On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 8:51 PM, tmday7 <tmday@...> wrote:
 


Hmmm, that sounds interesting Brad. As i do some website designing myself, and must say, HTML is much easier than programming language :)

Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Brad Murry <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> No offense taken, perhaps I was not clear enough...


>
>
>
> I am not suggesting to host the control in a web browser, just to host an
> html page in a window.
>
>
>
> The performance would be within 10's of ms to that of a simple winforms app.
>
>
>
> Obviously the above two points would be irrelevant to the end user of such
> as system, as there would be no reason to build a system that had such
> suggested limitations. The end user would just expect things to work.
>
>
>
> HTML is undeniably the most ubiquitous form of delivering rich visual
> content(# of native applications vs. # of websites) My grandmother has
> actually built websites in HTML, which leaves me to believe that it is
> fairly straight forward to learn and can be created using notepad and
> debugged in your favorite browser.
>
>
>
> I can see how this might seem unnecessary, etc.. to those not familiar with
> the technologies.
>
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of WPF(especially combined with MVVM)- it
> is what MM uses.
>
>
>
> I'm really not concerned with monetizing MM at present.
>
>
>
>
>
> Let me filter my audience criteria::
>
>
>
> I am trying to see if there is anyone who might fall with the following
> scenarios::
>
>
>
> 1) OEM's or integrators here that could make use of HTML technology in
> lieu of Mach3 with custom screens
>
> 2) Hobbyists who are proficient in basic formatting HTML and would like
> to create their own custom interfaces without needing to write any code
>
> 3) Hobbyists who want to create their own interface that have no
> knowledge of HTML, but can use a free website designer to build a custom
> interface
>
> (see http://netobjects.com/html/essentials.html)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you fall into any of these categories or you have knowledgeable
> constructive criticism to offer please let me know.
>
>
>
> -Brad Murry
>
>
>
> From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of himykabibble
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: HTML CNC Controller
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad,
>
> No offense, but to me, that would come under the heading of "Just because
> you can do it, doesn't mean you should". My browsers crash on a regular
> basis, and using one as a machine control interface would scare me. Also, I
> would think there would be performance impact, no? Just seems like an
> unnecessary, and undesirable, extra layer.
>
> Couldn't you get pretty much the same benefits using WPF? Isn't that what
> WPF is all about? Given that VC# Express is free, and the form designer is
> something almost anyone could master in fairly short order, that also seems
> to me a nice way to go, as long as all they're changing is the visuals.
>
> OTOH, you could them monetize MM by including ads, and requiring the user to
> watch a 30 second commercial before each machine run! :-)
>
> Well, back to work, plumbing the KFlop into my controller. I hope to have it
> up in a couple of hours....
>
> Regards,
> Ray L.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com> ,

> "bradodarb" <bradodarb@> wrote:
> >
> > When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web
> dev skills.
> >
> > As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to
> be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an
> HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
> >
> > I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page
> and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
> >
> > It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface,
> all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file
> for styling.
> >
> >
> > My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
> >
> > Questions/Comments please.
> >
> > -Brad Murry
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3266 From: roltek1 Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller
You are correct when you say the layout should be changed by the end user. In that statement should we be looking at how mach3 can design and change screens to the user's likings. I also am not a c code programmer. Tom has designed a great motion card that the average person can not use because the hmi is so far from the real world of cnc hmi design to control a machine or to change for a special machine.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bradodarb" <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.
>
> As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
>
> I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
>
> It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.
>
>
> My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
>
> Questions/Comments please.
>
> -Brad Murry
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3268 From: himykabibble Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller
Mach3 is not the model I would follow for that. The Mach3 screen design interface, and all of the associated tools, are truly awful. They get the job done, but only barely, and they are very limited in capability, and extremely buggy and unstable.

Regards,
Ray L.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "roltek1" <tbombaci@...> wrote:
>
> You are correct when you say the layout should be changed by the end user. In that statement should we be looking at how mach3 can design and change screens to the user's likings. I also am not a c code programmer. Tom has designed a great motion card that the average person can not use because the hmi is so far from the real world of cnc hmi design to control a machine or to change for a special machine.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bradodarb" <bradodarb@> wrote:
> >
> > When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.
> >
> > As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
> >
> > I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
> >
> > It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.
> >
> >
> > My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
> >
> > Questions/Comments please.
> >
> > -Brad Murry
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 3270 From: Brad Murry Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: HTML CNC Controller

Hello roltek1,

 

I am not certain how the mach screens are created.

 

The system I am developing works of the id attributes of HTML.  Any HTML tag can have an id attribute, so it makes for a good mechanism to route commands from the controller software to the UI and vice versa.

 

For example, by placing this simple HTML in your page::

 

<p id=”xdest”/>

 

The controller will automatically update the text of that HTML element with the axis destination value for channel 0 every 100ms.

 

 

Are you at all familiar with HTML or would you fall into category 3?

 

There are HTML drag and drop designers available that would allow for quick editing and all you would have to do is set the id tags you wish to wire up from the editor.  Basically if you can use a word processor you should be able to create an interface for this system.

 

 

-Brad Murry

 

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of roltek1
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:51 AM
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: HTML CNC Controller

 

 

You are correct when you say the layout should be changed by the end user. In that statement should we be looking at how mach3 can design and change screens to the user's likings. I also am not a c code programmer. Tom has designed a great motion card that the average person can not use because the hmi is so far from the real world of cnc hmi design to control a machine or to change for a special machine.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bradodarb" <bradodarb@...> wrote:
>
> When not working or devloping MM, I've been busy lately sharpening my web dev skills.
>
> As I think any CNC control's appearance/layout should have the ability to be customized by the end user, my thoughts naturally drifted to hosting an HTML page in a window that can communicate with the Kflop.
>
> I have a prototype working that can fire methods in c# from the HTML page and also I can change text/etc... in the HTML from c#.
>
> It appears to be a very promising way to offer a super flexible interface, all you have to do is define your web page HTML and optionally a CSS file for styling.
>
>
> My quesiton is would anyone actually find this useful?
>
> Questions/Comments please.
>
> -Brad Murry
>